Climate 21

Impossible Foods quest to reduce the impact of agriculture - a chat with Rebekah Moses

March 10, 2021 Tom Raftery / Rebekah Moses Season 1 Episode 15
Climate 21
Impossible Foods quest to reduce the impact of agriculture - a chat with Rebekah Moses
Chapters
Climate 21
Impossible Foods quest to reduce the impact of agriculture - a chat with Rebekah Moses
Mar 10, 2021 Season 1 Episode 15
Tom Raftery / Rebekah Moses

The first time I came across Impossible Foods was when I read an article about them in Techcrunch back in 2016 and I was immediately sold on the idea - making protein for people cutting out the animal middle-man is such an excellent concept, and such a win for the planet in terms of land use, energy use, and water use!

So when I kicked off this podcast, I was keen to talk to someone from Impossible Foods to hear the story from their perspective. To that end, I reached out and invited Impossible Foods' Head of Impact Strategy Rebekah Moses to join me on the show, and she very graciously agreed.

We had a fascinating conversation, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope you enjoy it too.

If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page, head on over to the Climate 21 Podcast Forum, or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).

And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Sustainability solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/sustainability and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover the show. Thanks.

And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!

Music credit - Intro and Outro music for this podcast was composed, played and produced by my daughter Luna Juniper

Show Notes Transcript

The first time I came across Impossible Foods was when I read an article about them in Techcrunch back in 2016 and I was immediately sold on the idea - making protein for people cutting out the animal middle-man is such an excellent concept, and such a win for the planet in terms of land use, energy use, and water use!

So when I kicked off this podcast, I was keen to talk to someone from Impossible Foods to hear the story from their perspective. To that end, I reached out and invited Impossible Foods' Head of Impact Strategy Rebekah Moses to join me on the show, and she very graciously agreed.

We had a fascinating conversation, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope you enjoy it too.

If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page, head on over to the Climate 21 Podcast Forum, or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).

And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Sustainability solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/sustainability and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover the show. Thanks.

And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!

Music credit - Intro and Outro music for this podcast was composed, played and produced by my daughter Luna Juniper

Rebekah Moses:

You know, there's no immediate fix, but over a period of 10, 15, 20 years, it stops the clock. It could stop the clock on climate change. It could even reverse the clock on climate change. But it buys us time. It buys us significant time.

Tom Raftery:

Good morning, good afternoon or good evening wherever you are in the world. This is the climate 21 podcast, the number one podcast showcasing best practices and climate emissions reductions. And I'm your host, global Vice President for SAP. Tom Raftery. Climate 21 is the name of an initiative by SAP to allow our customers calculate, report and reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. In this climate 21 podcast, I will showcase best practices and thought leadership by SAP, by our customers, by our partners and by our competitors if they're game in climate emissions reductions. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast in your podcast app of choice to be sure you don't miss any episodes. Hey, everyone, welcome to the climate 21 podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SAP and with me on the show today I have my special guest, Rebekah. Rebekah, would you like to introduce yourself?

Rebekah Moses:

Absolutely. And thank you for having me. My name is Rebekah Moses, I'm the director of impact strategy at Impossible Foods. We're a plant based meat company based in California,

Tom Raftery:

A plant based meat company, Rebecca, I know what Impossible Foods is. But for people who are unaware of what is a plant based meat company?

Rebekah Moses:

it's a lot to unpack there, isn't it? Let me Yeah, let me try and explain that a bit. So the the products that we make are meat from plants. So impossible burger impossible sausage, these are products that basically recapitulate the same experience of eating meat from an animal, but we do it using plant based ingredients in order to be vastly more environmentally sustainable. Now, from a business model perspective, I've heard us called food tech, I've heard us called food manufacturing, or something a little bit different, where our CEO likes to say that we're a planet company. The reason we were founded was to basically provide a consumer solution for these big wicked problems like climate change, extinction, figuring out how to get a handle on, you know, land use issues and habitat conversion. But it's hard to lead with that. So we really lead with that we are a company that's making delicious meat, we're just doing it from plants instead of using animals.

Tom Raftery:

Okay, and you said burgers and sausage is. So that's where you've started. Obviously, there are plans to go beyond that.

Rebekah Moses:

There are definitely plans to go beyond that we started with a burger is a bit of a misnomer. It's actually a ground beef product. So we started with 2016, I believe, is when we launched our first product. Very, very small launch, I think we were only in food service. So only in restaurants. We started in New York. And since then we've had really explosive growth. And last year now maybe it was this year, in in Corona context, everything feels like it works together. It was within 12 months ago, we launched the impossible sausage. So we started with a burger product. That's super versatile. Like you can use it the same way that you use ground beef in any kind of recipe, whether that's, you know, cofta or, or tacos or a burger. But it's like this very iconic product, right, especially in American cuisine. So we started there. Also, in part because, you know, the environmental issues associated with beef are orders of magnitude above that of other animal categories. But the plan is to have a full portfolio of basically, meat made from plants, everything from eggs, and chicken and sausage to whole cuts. steak is kind of a big frontier for us. And that's something we're pretty excited about too.

Tom Raftery:

Sure. Another space. I've heard it referred to as clean meat. Is that, is that the right nomenklatur? Or is there another one you prefer?

Rebekah Moses:

Oh, well, now we're going deep. When I think of clean meat, I don't think there is an arbiter on that. So I'm going to be the arbiter for a moment. When I think of clean meat, I think of cellular agriculture and kind of that. conventions, naming conventions around what we're calling cellular agriculture. So those are two very different types of production. With plant based meat or meat from plants, which is where impossible foods kind of plays that's our category. We take oil, so fats and oils from plants, proteins from plants, and then heme, which is our proprietary ingredient, like hemoglobin protein, and we combine in functional carbohydrates, binders all of these are ingredients from plants and we combine them together in a very traditional food manufacturing context. So we're buying soy protein, coconut oil, some Our oil, potato, protein, all these kind of almost commodity based ingredients, and we mix them all together, we just have a ton of research and development on the front end to figure out exactly what ratios exactly what format, you need to bring those things together in order to get that same nutritional experience, culinary experience sensory experience that you would get from the animal version. Now, much different over on kind of the cellular agriculture side, which and I'm not an authority on this by any means, really is using cellular agriculture and kind of fermentation based production methods to create the same animal tissues, but doing so without the actual animal body. So kind of a fermentation based synthetic meat. And again, we're getting into vernacular that becomes very specific very quickly. But two very different production systems

Tom Raftery:

So done by bio reactors, it was a company got a license to sell chicken meat in Singapore a number of weeks back, based on chicken produced from live chickens. So no slaughter of animals that just took cells from chickens, grew them in bioreactors, I want to think, and were able to produce chicken meat from that. So that's, that's the kind of thing you're talking about there.

Rebekah Moses:

Exactly, exactly. And it's very different than what we do. I think our take on this is any ways that we can build a more sustainable food system. That's fantastic. There's a lot of routes to getting there, we see this amazing abundance and diversity of crops that are out there already. So if we can take parts of those crops and bring them together in a way that recreates that same experience that we're used to in our, you know, food culture of eating meat from animals, that's the route that we think is the most, I think, efficacious and probably powerful way of doing it. But there's a whole, it's a very big toolbox.

Tom Raftery:

And then speaking of toolboxes, we should probably just comment on the fact that there's a little bit of construction happening in our house right now, which might account for some of the background noise that people might be hearing

Rebekah Moses:

happening in the house and next to the house. Apparently, it's the season for home renovations in San Francisco. And we're surrounded.

Tom Raftery:

No problem, no problem. Before we came, before we turn the recorder on, we were talking as well about another company in the space Beyond Meat. And we you happen to say that you don't see them as competitors. Rather you see meat from animals as your competition, I thought it's very similar to how Tesla, for example, refer to other EV manufacturers, that they say our competition is not other electric car manufacturers. It is the internal combustion engine vehicles. So it seems you're quite in alignment there and not seeing other people in this space as your competitors, but rather, the people who are killing animals are your competitors.

Rebekah Moses:

Right? That's exactly right. I mean, there's an enormous industry out there in terms of livestock products, it's about $1 trillion. Globally, we are still a pretty small fish in that pond, and so is Beyond Meat. And we're all kind of growing in this space very, very quickly. But though I think the velocity of growth, you know, people talk about kind of double digit growth of this industry year over year, triple digit growth, in some cases, it really, you have to take that in context with the magnitude of the incumbent industry and into the the enormity of the livestock sector broadly. So always good to keep in mind, rising tide lifts all boats on plant based meat, as far as I'm concerned, you want people to have a positive experience. That's, that's the big thing. You want consumers to access a product, I get to, I get to be pre competitive at my work. So I can say that's it, whether that's Beyond Meat, whether that's Impossible Foods, whether that's another actor out there, you just want them to be able to deliver consumers deliver to consumers a product that they're excited about that they're not, you know, choosing simply because it's sustainable. They're choosing it because it meets all the needs that they have, whether that's price taste availability. And so there's a lot more room in this space.

Tom Raftery:

Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. And, to that point, it's interesting as well, to see that some of the traditional meat companies are investing in this space as well, the likes of Cargill, and those and Tyson, I think, have made investments in this space, too.

Rebekah Moses:

Yeah. And I kind of wonder, I mean, to some extent, you would assume that at a strategic level, they sort of recognize that the planetary boundaries are for their system are real, that growth of the livestock sector as it is now is going to already has really pushed past the, by the biophysical capacity of the planet to sustain. And so when you have an industry that's sort of predicated on extensive grazing systems that that relies on, frankly, land use and habitat conversion deforestation to to make enough space for itself. You know, if I'm In charge of these companies, I start thinking about, well, what are ways we can diversify this portfolio? Because this is pretty risky. So, you know, I think some of this might just be a recognition of the scaling constraints of that industry.

Tom Raftery:

And they're even starting to call themselves protein companies now, rather than meat companies, again, for probably similar reasons and branding issues, as well, I'm sure

Rebekah Moses:

I have seen that. Yeah, it's kind of fascinating. Watching the evolution happen in real time.

Tom Raftery:

So we haven't discussed the, I mean, you mentioned it briefly in the start there, the the, the amount of resources it takes to create actual beef from animals, you want to address some of that, and some of the reasons why it's important to have things like Impossible Foods?

Rebekah Moses:

Absolutely. And it is, if you're kind of just encountering these statistics, it's a little wild, it's almost hard to believe them, I assure you they're credible, in terms of the global footprint of animal agriculture. So let's look at the whole production system, not just a single product. animal farming globally accounts for about half of the ice free land area of the planet, that comes at an enormous opportunity cost for wildlife, all these a diversity petition. Exactly. So even if it's grasslands, you know, you're kind of sharing an ecosystem, the more managed animals you have on that land, the less wildlife you can have, because they're all asking, they're looking for the same inputs, or, you know, rather different inputs within that same ecological niche. And so it's something that we don't talk enough about, I think, is the the land footprint associated with our food production system. So half the ice free surface surface of he land, a lot of that's b g, extensive grazing systems. 0% is directly kind of occupied by animal farming in a way t at really overwhelms the, he landscape and doesn't have a ot of kind of shared ecosystem. nd then about, oh, 15 to 18% of he total greenhouse gases f om human caused sources come f om farming animals, so 1/7, ab ut 15 to 18%. That doesn't s em like this huge numb r, necessarily, when we're talk ng about climate change, and t at is, because that number does 't count something that's ve y, very important. And that bri gs us back to land use, it does 't count the carbon opportun ty cost of farming animals, it doesn't count the landsca es that we're not allowing to photosynthesize, g ow vegetation, whether it's tr es or grasslands, and pull car on out of the atmosphere. And so there's really recent resea ch that's been done on that, t at looked at the global opportun ty cost of a carbon sink that we incur with livestock farmi g. And the numbers that came ut this was published earlier t is year or late last year, as about 200 Giga tons of carb n. Now, if you contextualize th t, in kind of fossil f el emissions, it nets out to ab ut 15 years of fossil fuel burni g. So if you combine the fact t at with plant based dietary shif s, you can avoid emissions f om livestock herds, that we re reducing the methane tha 's going out into the atmosphe e, reducing nitrous oxide, ou combine that with, you know, ou get to a certain point of sca e, you can start sparing land or carbon capture. It really sh ws you that plant based meat can be a negative emissions technol gy in a way that we're not rea ly thinking about. We're ot talking about as much as we re talking about, you know, ig carbon scrubbers that you an mount up in the in the sky, l ke stratospheric seeding, ther 's all sorts of bonk rs technologies to save clim te change. But what we rea ly should be thinking about is ur our diets. Anyway, and all t is to say the other side of he equation is water use about 0% 25% to 30% of the to al freshwater on the earth is recruited in animal farming. nd again, it goes back to opportunity cost. What else an we do with this water? What re we giving up when we when we choose to eat meat every d

Tom Raftery:

So if we were to switch over miraculously entirely to plant based meat tomorrow, and you are able to scale up to meet the demand, what kind of savings would we see?

Rebekah Moses:

It's hard to it's hard to think about an immediate transition, right? Because you do need dietary replacement. Livestock right now is supporting nutrition, especially across the global south in ways that you know, we need to as an industry, make sure that we've scaled up alternatives and made sure that food security is kind of the the the absolute flagship issue in addition to climate savings, in addition to biodiversity, progress on averting extinction rather. So all that said, all those caveats said if you did see a pretty rapid shift from plants from animal based meat to plant based meat, you would see very, very gradual succession, gradual land changes. So these grazed landscapes feed crop landscapes, where we're growing corn where we're growing soy, if those were no longer recruited in animal production systems, much of it would probably just go back into rewilding, to some extent, whether that's passively managed or actively restored, it would go back to capturing carbon that would go back to hosting wildlife. And hopefully, we haven't reached a period where we're so far down the path of extinction, that we've lost those biodiversity reservoirs. I think something that we need to be thinking about is, you know, within these food systems, let's say that we eventually do get to a point where we're sparing sparing lands, we have more room for wildlife. You need habitat continuity to ensure that wildlife can repopulate these areas. So there's a whole lot going on there. The other thing you would see is emissions reductions, methane, nitrous oxide, the carbon dioxide used to farm crops, these things would draw down very, very quickly. And you know, there's no immediate fix, but over a period of 10, 15, 20 years, it stops the clock, it could stop the clock on climate change, it could even reverse the clock on climate change. But it buys us time. It buys us significant time to address the other areas that we need to address, the energy sector, the building sector, I mean, all of these things. Like I said, there's a big toolbox. But one of the strongest best tools that we have is plant based diets and plant based meat to feed that consumer demand. Sure. So it's it's the magnitude of change is pretty astounding.

Tom Raftery:

Sure, sure. One of the one of the recent guests I had on the podcast is a man called Mark Korzilius, and he is the founder and CSO of a company called &ever who are a large, indoor vertical farm company. And it was a fascinating podcast, because he wasn't all frothy saying, you know, this is going to save the world. He was quite, you know, matter of fact, and saying, Well, look, we're out about 80 to 90% of water usage, and from 1000 square meters of indoor vertical farm, we can get the same production that it would take 18,000 square meters of of land, you know, so about 95% land reduction. So it occurs to me that the combination of large indoor vertical farms feeding into the likes of impossible foods, you know, if that became your food stock, we get a huge reduction of land use for the plants that are going into the production facilities that you have, and therefore we get a double whammy.

Rebekah Moses:

It's entirely possible. I mean, I think that vertical farming, so my background is agriculture, and in a fairly traditional sense. It did not work in vertical farming worked really within conservation agriculture, and what does sustainable agriculture look like on a per hectare basis? You know, I think there's a lot of, there's so much value that we can get from diversifying our food system in sometimes, you know, not immediately intuitive ways. And I think that vertical farming is one of those ways that you can diversify production in a way that will serve localization of food production, particularly in resource scarce environments. I mean, we're seeing a lot of investment from, you know, from the Gulf into vertical farming because of those issues of water scarcity. This is it's, you know, I think, potentially a pretty powerful tool for food security, food sovereignty, and certainly local production, in terms of being a vehicle for mass amounts of land sparing, with that's going to come from from removing reliance on grazing systems. The vast majority of the land footprint of agriculture is in grazing, not as much in food, food feed crop production or in food production that humans eat. So when you think about them from the American Midwest, I'm from Minnesota, okay, actually from a cow calf operation, in part, when you fly over where I'm from, it is just fields and fields and fields of monoculture corn, so I sometimes wheat sometimes out sometimes barley, all that corn and soy is not going to feed humans. 90% of the soy protein produced in the US is going to feed livestock. It's the same thing in Brazil. You know, people talk about soy deforestation. No, no, no, no, that's still cattle deforestation. It's still you know, livestock deforestation, you're just seeing the soy, but it's not going to make tofu. It's going to feed animals. So the biggest thing that we can do in terms of land sparing, really is to reduce reliance on the metabolic inefficiency of an animal. If you feed soy directly to a human, it's a direct conversion. The protein that was farmed on that unit of land goes to a person they get that person, you might have a little bit of process loss, a little bit of you know, field loss waste. But with an animal, especially with a cow, they're alive for a couple of years they are walking around doing their cow thing is their metabolism. They're making bones, they're making heights, they're making things we don't eat. And so for that reason, only 3% of the protein and calories that were embodied in the plants that a cow consumes go to you as at the consumer level. So it's this very leaky unit operation. And if we can subvert that, it's this is not a perfect number, because it doesn't account for things like food loss and food waste, but the global protein demand today, across the entire world could be in theory met with the existing harvest of soybeans, right now, if we would only need like 3% of the land footprint. So to me, the biggest thing is plant based dieting, whether that's Impossible Burger, whether it's a Beyond Burger, whether it's like I would love it, if I've heard the started trading beans for beef. That's the way you get there. It's through the dietary shifts.

Tom Raftery:

fascinating, fascinating. The other thing, the other statistic that always blows my mind is the fact that something like 80% of the world's antibiotics goes into agriculture, as a prophylactic to stop animals getting sick, rather than going to humans, to stop them getting sick and therefore leaks into the environment and is a cause of multidrug resistant bacteria.

Rebekah Moses:

Yeah, it's an enormous amount. I hadn't heard the 80% I believe in North America, it's like 50-50 50% going to humans 50% going to livestock don't quote me on that. But it is, it is not necessarily necessary. You know, and then someone thought

Tom Raftery:

it was because they're being housed in unhygenic conditions

Rebekah Moses:

Oh and to promote weight gain, especially with with ruminants. Feed them antibiotics, they'll gain weight faster, probably in part because they're not getting sick. But it does beg the question of what the heck are we doing? Well, this is the system we've set up. And we're not questioning it nearly enough. In terms of what the negative externalities are.

Tom Raftery:

Taking a slightly different tack, I got to think one of the biggest challenges you and Beyond and all the other companies are going to face is people and attitudes and the desire to eat meat, as opposed to a plant based diet. How do you how do you cope with that? Or how do you get around that? Or how do you deal with that?

Rebekah Moses:

I mean, that's the business model. Right? I think that historically, we haven't seen a lot of success and trying to push people into plant based diets through through narrative or through convincing. When people are choosing to eat anything, they're usually kind of making their they're meeting their hierarchy of needs. They're they're saying, does this taste good? Is the price right for me? And can I access it easily? At some point in there, there's nutritional considerations at some point in their their sustainability considerations. But they're not necessarily what's always top of mind. And so that was, I think, the realization that that Pat Brown, who's our CEO and founder had years and years ago, when we were founded in 2011, he had gone on sabbatical, he was at Stanford, who's a biochemist at Stanford. And he'd gone on sabbatical to kind of think about what he wanted to do with the rest of his working career and was going deeper and deeper down this rabbit hole on animal farming, which I can tell you is a very weird rabbit hole to go down because I spent much of my career in agricultural research and sustainable food production and sustainability within food systems. And until I kind of tuned into Impossible Foods, and until fairly like, recently, before I joined the company, I wasn't thinking about this either. No one, no one gave me an FAO document on the environmental footprint of livestock while I was going through graduate school, we weren't talking about this stuff within agricultural extension activities. So Pat's going down that rabbit hole, and he speaking out of turn again, but he, at some point, organized a conference, he brought together all these scientists because he was thinking, Well, okay, just quantitatively if you crack this, a lot of the big problems like climate change, biodiversity loss, a lot of these things are halted or even reversed. We've got to tell everyone, so he brings all these scientists together, and they have this conference. I believe there's a white paper that came out of it, but then nothing happened. So there's awareness building, but what do you have to do to move the needle to get it past just kind of like high level awareness of Yes, there's a problem into what we can do about it. And he realized that the private sector was probably going to be the most elegant way of doing that. Because if you can address consumption, you can address consumers in their day to day choices. Well, the scalability of that is Well, by the next couple of decades, it'll be about 9 billion people, hopefully, hopefully, people are getting access to food that they want to eat every single day. That's not the trope. It's not the case for everyone. But the magnitude of that toolkit is huge. And so what Pat also realized, and what I think we've seen borne out across this industry is that people want to make sustainable choices. But they need a, they need a way to do it, that makes it easy. And so the Impossible Burger was conceived of as a way to do that you don't have to compromise on versatility, you don't compromise on taste, you don't compromise on ease of access to it, especially as we scale up and were much more available, that's becoming much more true, we've lowered our prices as well. The goal is to get to price parity with with commodity animal products, you just need to make it easy, and you can't ask consumers to compromise. And once you can, sort of check those boxes, the capability to shift diets is there. But if you go to someone and you say, hey, the climate is in distress, also wild animals are dying across the world, what you eat here has an impact on the Amazon forest, people will depending on who it is, and what generation they're from, go, what the heck does me eating a steak in Texas have to do with the Amazon? Where did you get your numbers and I don't believe you or I don't know, these pastures look pretty nice to me. So you can't rely on consumer awareness building, you can't rely on telling people they're doing something wrong, no one likes to hear that. You have to just put the tool in their hand. And that's what we're trying to do.

Tom Raftery:

Nice. Speaking of putting the tool in their hand, as I mentioned, I can't get Impossible Food here in Spain, when When is that going to change?

Rebekah Moses:

We're working on it. We have had some good good success with our international expansion. We recently launched in Canada, that was huge. We're in Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore, we're looking very heavily at Asia, because that's where emerging demand is really happening. Diets are shifting away from what's historically been plant based and to what is now much more kind of a consistent with what we in the global north and west, which is very meat based. So you're gonna see like an 88% increase in demand for beef products in the Asia Pacific region over the next couple of decades. so big focal area there, the EU, which is where you are is also a big focus area, because there's such high levels of meat consumption, we're just going through the regulatory steps to make sure that that we're all squared away to to go to market. So I'm anticipating that that will not be a long timeline, but it will be a little bit longer.

Tom Raftery:

Okay. Okay. And you said you're hoping to get to price parity with meat as well. And I presume that's a region based as well. But what kind of timescale? Are you looking at

Rebekah Moses:

You know, I'll quote, our president Dennis there? Woodside, he recently made the statement that you can count on one hand, the number of years it's going to take us to get to price parity. So we are very aggressive in moving on this.

Tom Raftery:

Wow. Amazing. Fantastic. Rebecca, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Now. The one question that comes to mind, I guess what I asked a lot of people this on the podcast is, you know, considering all the things we've been talking about so far, and all the problems that we're facing and all the challenges that you are facing as an organization to change people's habits. Are you optimistic for our future?

Rebekah Moses:

I go back and forth. I'll be pretty candid with you, if I go back and forth. I think that there's a tremendous amount of power in innovations and solutions, like the ones that the plant based meat industry and Impossible Foods are bringing. I also just think there's so much more work to do, very, very broadly. And one of the things that I'm hoping to see and that will always drive optimism for me, is, I think, a burgeoning awareness of the individual day to day power that we have. Because right now, most most of the general population, whether in the United States where I am, or or globally does not recognize our diets as as a powerful thing they can do for the climate. There's a UN report that asked people, what do you think is the most effective way of addressing climate change, and everyone agreed on deforestation, let's end deforestation, which is mostly driven by meat consumption. But the least popular tactic was changing our diets. We need to change that we need to create greater awareness and Impossible Foods is not going to rest or premise our business model on the fact that that can happen. But personally, I will be incredibly excited when I can. When I when I feel like especially youth activists, especially this younger generation of folks who are looking for ways to really, really be leaders in the space. We need to be talking about our diets the same way we're talking about energy the same way we're talking about transit, same way we're talking about built environment and even more so because this is something that's not just atmospheric carbon. This is we're losing wildlife, we're losing biodiversity and we will reach out threshold where we can't get that back. And that's going to have implications for for humans, that's going to affect us too. nature for nature sake. That's where I am. Nature for human sake. That's, I think, where we should all be a little more conscious of, you know, the trade offs. But consumer awareness building, you know, it's happening, it's moving slowly, I want it to move faster. And the faster it moves more optimistic I get

Tom Raftery:

Nice. Do you eat meat?

Rebekah Moses:

Oh, yeah. Every once in a while. So here's the context, I'm married to a Brazilian difficult for us to not have meat in the house. The highest on the food chain, I'll go is chicken. But I'm also I'm from the Midwest, I'm from Minnesota. The thing is, I eat it incredibly rarely, I'm kind of our target market, and that it's difficult to substitute. And you need something else in your household that you can go to, you know, especially at a barbecue, I can bring Impossible Burger to the in-laws barbecue. And that's that works, right? If I bring a brick of tofu, that's a little bit harder sell. So I eat meat sparingly and rarely, but within kind of a cultural context that it's hard to get away from.

Tom Raftery:

We're wrapping up now, is there any question I have not asked you that you wish I had any topic that we've not addressed that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Rebekah Moses:

you know, the only point I always want to bring it back to is biodiversity. We're talking about climate change. And that's received so much terrific attention, so much youth activism, but extinction and biodiversity loss. That's the next big frontier that I hope we all turn our attention to. And the way that we eat has so much has so much to do with that and to do with with the success or the failures that we're gonna have over the next couple of decades. So from a conservation perspective, for those of us who really value wildlife and nature for nature's sake, I hope that we start thinking about our diets a lot more

Tom Raftery:

super, super. Rebecca has been really fascinating. If people want to know more about yourself, or about Impossible Foods, or any of the topics we discussed on the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Rebekah Moses:

You know, our website does a pretty good job of making sure everything is linked and easily accessible. There's one URL in particular, so www dot impossiblefoods.com slash sustainable food. That's also where you can find a lot of our sustainability numbers or impact reports, resources to learn more. So I would drop clicks there

Tom Raftery:

super, super.Rebecca. That's been great. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Rebekah Moses:

Thank you so much. Nice speaking with you.

Tom Raftery:

And good luck with the house repairs.

Rebekah Moses:

We'll need it. Thank you.

Tom Raftery:

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about climate 21, feel free to drop me an email to Tom raftery@sap.com or connect with me on LinkedIn or Twitter. If you liked the show, please don't forget to subscribe to it and your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.